Cost Factors for Pre-Engineered Steel Buildings
Find out what MSC takes into account when pricing a structure - there are more factors than you might realize.
Let’s talk dollars and cents. To get the low down about pricing, we sat down with Steve Ivanitz, owner of Metal Structure Concepts in Kelowna, BC. We’re tackling a simple question that has a complex answer!
James (Interviewer):
Before we dive into cost factors, can you walk us through your building types?
Steve, owner of Metal Structure Concepts:
The building types we have on the website are accurate: commercial, industrial, retail, and storage covers the uses of the buildings. Plus, we are currently discussing our first livable structure. Each customer is different. The first question customers ask is always about cost. Intended building use, size, and location are the biggest factors.
Quoting a Project
James:
Is there a set of questions you ask a potential customer so you can quote a building?
Steve:
For sure. Essentially we’re trying to figure out the project budget. But I typically don't start by asking them what their budget is. There's a reason for that, and that's because they don't know what their budget is! *laughs*
They’re not sure what they need. They are exploring their options. In the beginning stages of most conversations, they're looking at comparing other construction types. Like, how much is a steel building vs. a wood building vs. a concrete block tilt-up? They're looking at pros and cons, and cost differences for different construction types.
There is no set way that the questions will unfold. So the best way to start is with a few general questions:
- What do you want to do in the building? What's the purpose of the building?
- Do you own the land?
- Where are you building?
Location is very important in regards to a build. We've tackled all sorts of builds, even where space was limited.
Building Purpose & Use
The purpose is sometimes a sticky issue, especially with a lot of the grow-op people. They'll phone and they don't want to tell me. It's a secret thing. It's weird, people feel embarrassed to phone and say "I want to build a grow-op." They just don't want to disclose what they're doing. I can't give them the real answers because I don't know what they're looking for.
Other than that, once we know the building’s end-use, then I can start guiding them pretty quick on design ideas. If they want to put a crane in their building for lifting a product 20 feet high, that'll tell me approximately how high their building needs to be. If they're just putting products for cold storage, and it's an industrial zone, then that tells me what kind of insulation we're putting in the building.
I can get to a point where after probably on average a 30-minute phone call I can give them a very realistic budget number on what I think their project's going to cost.
Size is definitely a factor, but the purpose of the building as well as the location are the major factors when considering a new build
Building Size & Property
James:
I’m guessing building size is the main cost factor?
Steve:
Physical dimensions are important for sure, but dimensions are usually driven by the property and use.
Probably after asking, "What do you want to do in the building?", I will ask, "Do you have property?"
If the customer has property, we discuss where they plan to put the building on the property. This could lead to needing some code review done. A professional will do a code review, a building designer, or an architect will determine if we have any fire-rated walls in the building. If there are any fire ratings required or the building is adjacent to property lines, it'll almost always need some sort of fire rating on the walls.
Now that's not a factor in storage applications most times. Basic kinds of farm type buildings don't need fire rating either. Commercial, industrial, retail, and warehousing usually need fire-rated walls. Where it's situated on the property will also factor back into the overall cost.
James:
So you have to be far enough away from other buildings to prevent a fire from spreading?
Steve:
To avoid needing fire-rated walls you have to be far enough away from other buildings and far enough away from the property lines. You have to be quite far.
James:
Even if you're on your property line, and there's an empty field beside you?
Steve:
Yeah, it still counts. No one knows what they're going to build next to you eventually. So the fire ratings are fully in relation to the property line, not to what the next-door neighbour's building is. It's in relation to the property lines.
There are different zoning questions and different occupancy questions and the end-use of the building that determines what those fire-rated walls will need to be. So it always starts with "What do you want to do in the building?"
Based on what they want to do in the building, I will discuss insulation types and what kind of R-value they need in their building. For example, if they're building a cold storage building, that's entirely different from an RV dealership.
James:
Cold storage means unheated?
Steve:
No, it's not unheated necessarily. But they need to control the temperature like for storing fruit or storing wine. Cold storage is where they have to chill it. It's a little bit of the opposite, but the end result is it requires more R-value.
It has to be well insulated correctly because it is climate-controlled to a really high level.
James:
Is it mostly for agricultural buildings or grow buildings where you do those climate-controlled buildings?
Steve:
Yeah, and a little bit for the grow ops. The marijuana buildings require a certain temperature.
Agricultural buildings need a bit more consideration for their builds. Heating, cooling, and venting are very important for these builds.
Agricultural Buildings vs. Other Types
James:
Let's talk about agricultural buildings. What are the extra considerations that wouldn't play into a regular storage facility or commercial building?
Steve:
Yeah. The buildings themselves are held to a little bit of a higher standard to make sure that we don't have any issues with condensation or the building sweating. When it's an agricultural building or grow building you really have to be careful with the mechanical system. So the building is the first big part.
The second big part that is maybe at the end of the day even more important than the building's shell is how they're heating, cooling and venting that building.
We want to make sure we're not causing unnecessary problems in the building later. The buildings themselves, and the initial shell to get that building built are insulated more. You're putting more insulation in. You're typically putting metal sheeting in the inside of the building. This is called a liner panel. This essentially seals the inside of the building. You create a wall cavity and a ceiling cavity that's really well insulated. Then you put metal sheeting on the inside of the building roof and walls to fully seal it.
James:
Are you sealing all the joints? Is it airtight?
Steve:
Yeah, the joints as well. We seal it so it's airtight, caulked, sealed. It works well. They're using them all the time now.
James:
So non-agricultural buildings wouldn’t have liner panels on the inside?
Steve:
No, they wouldn’t, but some people want it for just the look. Some of the mechanic's shops and mining companies will do that. Some of the heavy industrial shops in Northern Alberta, and the oil patch go to a liner panel system because they can afford it and they want that fully enclosed sealed system.
James:
So if you don't have a liner panel, what’s used on the inside walls and ceiling?
Steve:
Typically it's just left with the vinyl backed metal building insulation. You look at the bright white vinyl backed metal building insulation and it doesn't have to be covered. It's a finished product on the inside.
James:
Ah, it's the insulation. I'm always thinking of the residential batting like the pink stuff, but you’re talking about something vinyl-backed?
Steve:
Yeah, the batting is on the other side of the bright white heavy vinyl backing.
James:
It is a lot cheaper than the steel, and the additional liner. Okay got it.
Steve:
They're nice and bright. People like them because they make nice bright workshops. It just isn't an airtight seal in those cases.
When it comes to foundations, the popular choice is still concrete. The cost is impacted by the type of soil the build is on.
Site Preparation and Foundations
James:
How about the cost of the building’s foundation?
Does anybody do dirt still or is everyone's doing concrete.
Steve:
Everyone's doing concrete, yeah.
James:
So the foundation is a standard cost?
Steve:
It’s standard in terms of building size square footage, but it changes depending on soil— the type of land it's built on. A concrete foundation and slab floor for a building in the Okanagan is X amount of money, and that same foundation and slab floor in Fort St John or Northern Alberta/BC is 25 to 30 percent more because of site conditions. It is affected by mud and clay.
So then they typically go to a pile. They put crush down first, so they have a lot more to spend on site-prep. The actual foundation itself has to be thicker, bigger, stronger, and requires more rebar because the ground underneath doesn't support it.
James:
Ah, okay. So since it's going to shift, handle more frost, you have to dig the site out more, maybe put some more sand or crush down. You also have to prep the concrete and then the rebar, and the piles go deeper.
British Columbia’s Interior region is cheaper for foundation work than Northern BC?
Steve:
Yes, and that is something I do advise clients on when they phone.
James:
Do you find muddy or clay areas in the Okanagan that add foundation expense?
Steve:
Typically no. It almost doesn't exist down here. I mean, there are a few locations but not a lot. They're one out of a hundred. As soon as you get north of Prince George, you start getting into suspect soils. Pretty much all of Alberta and Saskatchewan. The type of soil out there is clay and muck.
Will your building be snowed on? Are there high winds? Any seismic activity? These are geographical factors that can also affect costs.
Geographical Cost Factors
James:
Sounds like location is a big cost factor?
Steve:
100 percent. Location affects site prep and foundations, construction strength to handle wind, seismic, snow load, and insulation requirements.
So in BC, there can be almost a 40 percent variation in the cost of a building. Take an identical building and put it in Osoyoos which is like a 22 or 23-pound ground snow load because it's essentially a dessert. They don't get any snow down there.
Now talk to a client who wants the same 10,000 square foot building in Revelstoke or Smithers BC. You now go from a 23-pound ground snow load in Osoyoos to a 150-pound ground snow load in Revelstoke.
James:
What does 23-pound ground snow load mean?
Steve:
That means the building roof is designed to hold 23 pounds per square foot of load on the roof.
So if you take a foot by a foot, that roof is designed to hold 23 pounds of pressure, which is based on snow and rain.
James:
So it’s cheaper in Osoyoos because they are in a desert-like climate. There is not as much snow. What did you say the number was for Revelstoke?
Steve:
150 pounds per square foot.
James:
Wow, over 6 times higher.
Steve:
Yeah. That will take that same building and vary it by probably anywhere from 25 to 30 percent would be realistic for the same amount of doors, same windows, and same insulation system. The steel itself is heavier and designed differently to support that additional load.
James:
And it wouldn't be just the roof? Would it be the whole structure?
Steve:
Yeah, the whole building. It’s a big factor in BC. If we talk about the prairies, the snow loads are almost uniform throughout Alberta and Saskatchewan. Now there are select pockets where the snow loads and the seismic are different, but in general, across the prairies, it's pretty similar. Calgary is similar to Edmonton, which is similar to Red Deer. it's all pretty close.
James:
You used the word seismic. Are you talking about earthquake activity? What parts of Western Canada is that a factor?
Steve:
Yes, that’s right. On Vancouver island, you add another factor to the building for seismic. As well as the Sunshine Coast and the coastal strip in BC— Vancouver up to up to Prince Rupert.
Take the same 10 000 square foot building from Osoyoos and add another 10 percent to it because of seismic design on the coast, which means heavier steel, bracing, and a structurally heavier design.
James:
Talking about seismic, are there vibration considerations? Like how do you join the pieces together? I’m reminded of how engines have those rubber mounts, but not sure if that exists in the building world?
Steve:
No rubber mounts. *laughs* The roof beam is bolted to a column with additional bolts in that connection in a high seismic area. There'll be additional cross-bracing with either cable or rod bracing. There'll be more bracing to support that structural frame.
James:
Because the building needs to handle sideways movements?
Steve:
Yes, lateral movements and deflections in the buildings.
James:
So not just snow load, which is pure downforce? So there are different engineered solutions for different things. That's cool. I didn't know that.
Steve:
Yeah. So those are the two big factors for variation in buildings BC are seismic and snow loads. There are extreme differences all across the province, whereas again on the prairies, never mind the snow load, and the seismic is also fairly uniform throughout the prairies.
Now there's another one, and that's wind load.
James:
How does wind load factor into design?
Steve:
It doesn't matter so much in the Okanagan. This all started essentially back in the Southern United States where the wind design on these buildings has evolved because of the hurricanes. These buildings stand up well against the hurricanes.
The roofs are designed for an insane amount of wind uplift and load. They're building them in Hurricane Alley all the time. It's not as much of a factor as the snow load and the seismic, but wind is a consideration.
James:
You'd have to use similar strengthening, right? Like the bracing and stuff?
Steve:
It's trying to hold that thing in place, yeah. The one place in BC we've built a few buildings is in Squamish at the end of the inlet there. It's crazy windy. That's where all the kiteboarders are. That's where the windsurfers are. You get an extreme wind there and it comes up the channel and in Squamish itself, the buildings are all designed with that in mind.
James:
That's neat. I guess snow laid would be an issue up the coast too.
Steve:
Yes. There is wet snow on the coast that is heavier. So when that potential customer phones in, the first thing I want to know is where they are. Next is the building’s size & purpose. With that information, I can start formulating a plan.
Flooring
James:
So you talked about how building size and use are the biggest cost factors, and then the site determines many things like property lines, and firewalls.
We then discussed the location and how that affects the design.
What about floor finishes? After the concrete foundation, do people just leave the concrete exposed?
Steve:
Ninety percent of people leave the concrete exposed. They just look at the gray concrete floor all day.
James:
Do they just finish it with a sealer on it?
Steve:
Yup, they put a basic sealer and leave it. Unless it's an RV or car dealership with some sort of showroom application in the building, in that case they'll typically put tile or some sort of flooring on it.
James:
The guys that seal it, is it a clear seal, or do they paint it with something?
Steve:
Both.
James:
Is there a better or worse? Is one more expensive or more affordable?
Steve:
A very basic sealer is cheap and affordable. Maybe on a 10,000 square foot building, they can spend $1500 on a sealer.
James:
Wow, that's not bad.
Steve:
This can go to almost an endless possibility for epoxy and a high-end coating. You would see these expensive floors in the hospital or a high-end government office building.
James:
Epoxy sounds expensive. What would that same 10,000 square foot building cost for epoxy?
Steve:
Oh, probably upwards of like 30 grand. Three bucks a square foot depending on the product. There are lots of products. There are hundreds of products for concrete.
James:
A ten thousand square foot building can range from fifteen hundred bucks up to thirty thousand just for sealing concrete?
Steve:
Yup. Quite easily. Probably even a bigger range. There are so many products and I'm not an expert on them. I tell people up front, I'm not a concrete expert anymore because you need to be in it. I'll advise or recommend people to experts that I know are concrete guys and that's what they do. I mean, there are hundreds of products to coat, seal, and finish.
James:
Does the site prep and foundation form part of your quote?
Or does MSC leave a budget allocated?
Steve:
Yes, we leave a budget allocated. Or I get them in touch with a contractor. If the owner requests that I help them like "Hey, I don't know how to get my concrete done Can you help me figure this out?" Then we help them all the way through, and we'll recommend some good general contractors we know.
James:
Your normal process is to refer a local concrete company for foundation work?
Steve:
Yeah, we put them in touch with somebody. This all came about because I used to do all of our concrete work. I had almost 20 staff in the field doing foundation work for probably almost 10 years. In the end, it wasn’t worth the time and the effort we were putting in.
There are carpenters and contractors around that do foundation and concrete work in most towns and communities across western Canada. This isn't true when it comes to finding steel erectors and guys to build the buildings. It's more of a niche. It's harder to find a crew to construct a building.
I found that we were doing the concrete work and spending all that time and effort and not making any money. There is a local guy standing there, with his shovel and his crew ready to do the concrete work that can handle it in town.
Now I just offer advice— kind of semi-babysitting service for the clients to help them get their concrete work done.
James:
So you give them the specs and tips and recommend a local concrete company, and then you must make sure what they're doing is going to be compatible with whatever building you're putting on top of it, right?
Steve:
Yeah, I make sure they know that our phone's on, and they can phone anytime for advice. We help to get their foundation work done. Inevitably, I guide them and help them by telling them what has worked in the past and what hasn't. I tell them to watch out for this and that.
James:
That's good. You try to help them with a value-added service while also supporting a local concrete company in their town. That seems like a nice win-win.
Function relates to what type of roof is recommended for your building. All three options offered by MSC are metal.
Roofing
James:
What are the roof options that would play into the cost of a building?
Steve:
That’s part of the first question when I ask a client, "What are you going to do in the building?" Function directly relates to what roof I advise they put on the building. If it's a basic storage building, boat storage, mini storage, or a generic basic shop for a guy's yard in the Okanagan, we can put a screw-down roof. This is the most cost-effective, affordable roof.
From there, "Do you want to put some offices in our building?" If it's a retail store that the public will see, we take it up a notch and go to a standing seam roof, a floating roof system. It's a better roof, it's a better product, allowing you to put more insulation in the roof.
From there, there is a third option of using an insulated metal panel. They call this an IMP for insulated metal panels. That's the top end. It is the most superior product out right now for metal buildings and almost for any general construction. That's a superior product for a roof.
That's three options and it depends on what they want to do in the building. Their budget often determines what kind of roof we use.
James:
All three roof options are using metal? Never tiles, never asphalt, never a gravel roof or anything? You see some buildings when they're flat, and they just have gravel on top. But maybe metal buildings always have pitched roofs?
Steve:
Yes, metal. And our roofs always have a slope so the water runs off.
Crane Support in Pre-engineered Steel Buildings
Steve:
Crane support is a huge benefit of our steel buildings. If a company will need a 5, 10, 20 ton crane in the building, pre-eng is the way to go.
James:
You're talking about the giant cranes that hang from the ceiling?
Steve:
Yeah, they're supported by the building. If someone asks me, “What's the best use of a pre-engineered steel building?” It's for a shop to support cranes. You can affordably put cranes in these buildings.
James:
Because you'd have to build the same structure inside an existing building otherwise, right?
Steve:
Right, you'd have to self-support the crane, and that becomes super expensive because you're asking for another whole foundation. You are going to need another skeletal support structure inside the buildings that support the cranes often.
Almost without fail, if someone says I need a crane in a building, they're going to end up at a pre-engineered steel building. That's one of their best virtues, and that's where they shine. They're designed for cranes efficiently. So when a guy says, "I have a heavy repair shop for Finning or Cat," or “We're building a shop to work on units”, I know he needs a crane.
We start talking about how heavy of a crane he thinks he needs, and what to build, and that'll in turn factor into that conversation of budget numbers at the start.
Have questions, or want to learn more about how we can help with your pre-engineering steel building project? We'd love to hear from you! Contact us on 250-979-2993 or email info@mscsteel.com